Doug Martsch
Martsch Madness
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But you wouldn't know it by talking to Martsch, who lives in Idaho with his girlfriend and young son and professes a dislike for most of the standard operating procedures of the record industry. Thus, it was a bit of a surprise when Warner Bros. announced that Built To Spill would be issuing a live album, a scant three years into its contract. Indeed, as Martsch told Nude As The News Site Director Ben French and Associate Editor Jonathan Cohen in two separate phone conversations, his real enthusiasm lies in the simple art of making music.
THE LIVE ALBUM
NATN: Whose idea was it to put out a live album?
DM: Actually, Joe McEwen, our A&R guy at Warner Bros., suggested it. I'd sort of been thinking about it a little bit, but I was sort of thinking about a smaller-profile one, on a different label.
NATN: How did you record the shows?
DM: On this last tour, we brought out a DAT machine and recorded almost all the shows, but we didn't use any of that. Though a few shows, for various reasons, we recorded on multi-track. And there were like three of them. And so we just used stuff from that. Then, when we started working on the record, we ended up playing a couple shows in Seattle and recording those as well.
So there were like five shows [on tape] and we ended up using material from three of them. And yeah, its all just multi-track stuff that we used. None of the DAT stuff ended up sounding very good. At least I don't think it did. I don't think ever listened to any of it.
NATN: You never listened to any of it?
DM: It didn't really sound that good. And I never wanted to hear any of the songs more than I wanted to be playing 'em.
NATN: You put a couple of live songs on the "Carry the Zero" single. Where were those taken from?
DM: Those weren't from any of those shows. Those were just live DAT.
NATN: How did you decide to put those out?
DM: That was the record company's idea. That kind of bummed me out because I sent it over and they just did it. I kind of sent it to someone, just to listen to, and it just ended up coming out. There were a couple of songs that I thought were okay, and those were not the ones they chose. There was a "Made Up Dreams" that was all right and something else that was all right. But that (other) stuff didn't do too much for me.
That was like a show here in Boise at a local record store. I don't really like playing that way. I'm not very comfortable with it. It kind of bummed me out when that came out.
NATN: You don't like playing alone?
DM: I don't. I like the idea of it. I'm just not very good at it. If I was good at it, I would love it.
NATN: Have you thought of playing with one or two people in an acoustic setting?
DM: Not really (laughs). When I'm playing live, I like it to be loud with big guitar solos and stuff.
NATN: Getting back to the live album, how did you select the songs?
DM: A couple of shows -- in Denver and Boulder -- were recorded. And basically they were the same set, mostly songs from Keep It Like A Secret and a few from Perfect From Now On. By the time we'd gotten to New York, we'd added some songs to the set, including a few from There's Nothing Wrong With Love.
Basically, of the two Colorado shows, one was not a very inspiring performance. The other was one of our best performances, but it wasn't recorded all that well. We took "I Would Hurt A Fly" from that show. The NYC version had a bass mess-up that was kind of unfixable.
I kind of wanted to include more of There's Nothing Wrong With Love songs, but none of them turned out all that great. They weren't all that inspired or different from the album versions. The other songs were a little more developed and interesting, particularly Perfect From Now On songs. Those had Brett Netson playing on them, which I thought was what made it interesting.
After we'd already decided we were doing the live record and we'd mixed some stuff, we booked two shows in Seattle and Portland and recorded them. We did some different songs: "Cortez The Killer," "Car," and the two other covers. We didn't practice very much -- just kinda learned them quickly. I wanted there to be a decent variety.
"Car" we stuck on there, because, I don't know ... that was kinda just putting a "hit" song on there. I wasn't too impressed with the version of it, but I think a lot of people want to hear it no matter what it sounds like.
NATN: How did you choose the covers?
DM: With "Cortez The Killer," I was actually playing this show here in town with a couple friends for this fundraiser thing. And we were just gonna get this short little set together and I thought that would be a cool song to play. I kept on playing it and Built To Spill started playing it. It's my favorite Neil Young song. It's basically an excuse to play long guitar solos.
And then there is "Virginia Reel Around The Fountain." That's a song we played various times on tour, which is a fun song to play, and again I just like it for guitar solos. And the other one is by Love Is Laughter, and I don't know ... a couple of years after it came out even, for some reason that song popped in my head one day and I just had to listen to it all the time. And I wanted to play it.
GOODBYE LABEL?
NATN: Is this album a barometer of your contract ending with Warner Bros.?
DM: A lot of times you will see a label release a live album to fulfill a contract.
I think a live album is something that is better to come out at the end of a band's career. Unless it's especially special, like Jane's Addiction's first album, which is a great live record. I have a lot of mixed feelings about putting this out, and still kinda do.
Joe said it was a good idea, people around me like Phil Ek thought it was a good idea. Basically I kinda just said, "Whatever. If they want to put out a record, might as well."
I wish it was a stronger record, that could stand out more on its own. I think for Built To Spill fans, it's a good record. But I don't think it's a very good introduction to the band. I don't really stand behind it that much. Again, I wish it had a smaller profile. But I think Warner Bros. has the same idea. I don't think they will push it that hard. Not unlike our other records, which is fine with me (laughs).
NATN: So the record doesn't mean you are unsatisfied with Warner Bros. or are ready to head back to an indie label?
DM: This record has nothing to do with our commitment to them, or theirs to us. It's just an extra one-off. I don't know that our profile is even any higher now with Warner Bros. That's good for me.
I love the way they've treated us. They've barely done anything for us, and that's the position I'd like to be in. The difference to me is that we get more money to make the record -- to make it sound a little nicer. And, after making the record and then taking what's left of the recording budget, there's really not that much there.
If we did a record for a label like K, we'd get a much better split, but we'd be making about the same amount of money. Being on Warner Bros., I've been able to get a publishing deal, which has given us some money. Basically, the main difference to me is the recording budget, how much money is actually spent on the record. As far as how much money we take home, or how many records are sold, I don't see much of a difference. But I get along with the people at Warner Bros. fine. I have no qualms with them at all. I like being on that label. They've been really really nice to us.
NATN: Do you think your friends in Modest Mouse will be changed by their move to the major label?
DM: I have heard most of their new record [The Moon And Antarctica, due on Epic in mid-June]. They make the music they want to make. I think they've never shied away from making pop music or weird music. They're unaffected by being on a major. They're obviously set, as long as they stay out of trouble and stay busy. People love them and they know it. It doesn't matter what label they're on. I have some early mixes of the album, and some of the songs are super good. Mostly they are pretty.
IN THE WORKS
NATN: What can you tell us about a new Built To Spill album?
DM: We're kind of in the process of doing that now. We've had a couple of practices. Scott [Plouf], our drummer, lives in Olympia, so he comes down for a week every month or so. He's been down a couple times. It's kind of going slowly but I think it will come together at some point. We're supposed to start recording in late June.
NATN: How does the process work? Do you write the songs and present them to the band?
DM: It depends. That's mostly the way that I've worked, with the exception being the last record. Keep It Like A Secret -- a lot of that stuff was (written together). We made records before (Perfect From Now On) by me just showing them songs and then recording them really quickly. And then on Keep It Like A Secret, the band was involved. We just jammed a lot to kind of figure out what we were going to sound like. So a lot of the basic parts of those songs are things we just jammed together. And then about half of them are things that I brought in. And this new stuff is all stuff that I've just written. We don't have much time.
NATN: Does this new material sound like either of the last two records?
DM: It's kind of early to tell. I think that there's some sort of aesthetic that I have -- its hard for me to recognize it. It's pretty simple. Most of the songs are pretty simple. Right now, at least, most of the songs only have two parts. I kind of think they will end up having only two parts. In that way, it's a lot different from Perfect From Now On. And I want to keep them all short again.
NATN: Do you have any new goals or anything you are going after in particular?
DM: Not really, no. I think that after you make a record you understand a little better that whatever comes to you is it. I can't push it any direction very easily. So, I have no idea what it'll be 'till it comes out.
NATN: Will that be any time soon?
DM: I think it has to be turned in October or November. It probably will come out in early 2001.
NATN: Are any of the songs finished?
DM: They're all little bits and pieces of things I've come up with over the past couple of years. I haven't come up with very much. We toured a bunch, and I kinda took a break from music. I'd been sort of playing and writing some other songs in open guitar tunings, with slide guitar. I actually made a record by myself doing that kind of stuff.. a little bit with two other guys here in Boise. I just finished making the record and will have some CDs of it in the next couple of days.
I think it will just be out under my name. Not sure what label it will come out on. I have to send it to Warner Bros. first, because they have the rights to the things that I do. But I don't want it to come out on Warner Bros. I'd like it to have a low profile -- for people that know about me. The sound production isn't that good. I recorded it myself, in my own studio. It was kinda rushed in a way, because I wanted to get it done before Built To Spill started working. I didn't want to burn out on the whole recording process before Built To Spill goes into the recording studio, because I do get burned out pretty easily. I'm going to send it to Warner Bros. and see what they think of it.
Maybe I can talk them out of releasing it [laughs]. I don't think they're going to be into putting it out, but I'm afraid they won't want anyone to put it out.
NATN: Have you thought about releasing it on the Internet?
DM: I haven't really thought about that. I don't really know anything about that.
NATN: What does it sound like?
DM: Well, about half of it is me by myself -- a couple songs that are just acoustic guitar. And then there's a few with a band, some local guys, and Brett and Scott. It's kind of bluesy. I'm not really sure what it's like. There's a wide variety of songs.
I've been listening to a lot of old folk and blues music. My favorite stuff is from the '20s and '30s. It's kind of inspired by that stuff. There's one song that is Built To Spill-y sounding -- a big long rock song. I like it pretty well, but like I said, the recording. I kind of think I could have spent more time on it and made it better. But I wanted to get it done.
ON THE ROAD AGAIN
NATN: Is Built To Spill going on tour?
DM: We're going to play some shows on the East Coast in late April [4/21 Boston, 4/22 Philadelphia, 4/23 Washington, DC, 4/25-26 New York, 4/28 Lancaster, Pa., 4/29 Providence, 4/30 New Haven, Ct.]
It should be fun! And then we go to Europe for a couple shows, for the City Slang label's anniversary party. It kinda bums me out, because it falls in the middle of when we should be practicing. I want to hit the studio in June or July at the latest. We like to have a few months to work things out.
For Europe, I always get talked in to it. I refuse at first, but they make me feel guilty. I think it'll be fun when we get there, but I just hate traveling all that way.
NATN: Is it tough to balance the touring and the family life you have in Boise?
DM: I just do whatever feels right. We toured quite a bit last year and that was really hard, it was a lot of time away from my son Ben, who is almost 6. It was hard on him. When I got back from touring, I told him I wasn't going to go anywhere for a year. We did end up doing some shows, but I just took him with me and brought along his uncle to take care of him.
Now, we're at the point of being able to make some real money when we go out. Before, it was like, "We'll just do this little bit of touring." But now, when there's money dangling in front of us, it's harder to stay home. It's easier to justify going out on the road. We just play it by ear, but we still don't really do that much touring. It's also nice that when I'm here, we don't have to work.
NATN: Does your son like Built To Spill?
DM: He's seen us play. He likes it all right. But he thinks its too loud. He doesn't listen to our records or anything.
NATN: What kind of guitar effects do you use?
DM: It's all really straightforward. Every time we record, we try to get a bigger sound out of my guitar, but we're never able to. I've used a Tremelux. I run it through a digital delay. Even without the delay on, I can use it as a pre-amp, which gives it a little bit of grain. Other than that, I'm not at all a gear person. I have the same Fender Strat I've had for 10 years. Of course, there's lots of layers.
NATN: How do you translate the fullness of the studio work to the stage?
DM: On the last tour, we had [Delusions guitarist] Jim Roth with us, so we were able to find everything that was important and have him play the things I wasn't able to. As a three piece, I do the cool parts that I can. When I'm singing, I'm mostly strumming chords. Sometimes the volume and energy is enough to replace the different parts.
NATN: You obviously love the guitar. Who are some of your favorite players?
DM: Hmmm. Well, I like J. Mascis. That's more where I got Neil Young from I think. Brett Netson - he's probably my favorite guitar player. I like Jimi Hendrix a lot. I like a lot of old blues guitar players.
NATN: Like who?
DM: I love Fred McDowell and Blind Willie Johnson. But it's probably the rock stuff that influenced me: J. Mascis and Brett Netson.
NATN: What's the live scene like in Boise?
DM: I have no idea. I don't pay any attention. I don't go out at all.
NATN: When was the last time you went to see a concert?
DM: Ummmm, the last concert was Morrissey. I'm not that interested in going out and watching bands play. I'd even miss good shows by bands I was interested in seeing. I just don't like to go to crowded places. I'd rather go home and listen to a record that I know I love.
NATN: Coming back to Neil Young for a second, do you have a favorite album by him?
DM: Zuma. Just because I like that song so much. I like After The Goldrush a lot.. And his rocking stuff, like Ragged Glory. I like the solos. I don't care much for the songs, I just love his guitar playing. I'm not a huge Neil Young fan.
NATN: Any favorite live albums?
DM: I don't know. I've never thought about that. Live albums (pondering). Do you?
NATN: I like Rust Never Sleeps.
DM: I do too and I like the one he did he put out called Arc.
NATN: All the distortion noise?
DM: I never listened to that but the other one...
NATN: Weld?
DM: Is that it?
NATN: It has a long version of "Cortez The Killer."
DM: Yeah that's it. It has long versions of all those songs. I thought all those songs were pretty mediocre, but the guitar solos on all those songs are great. I love that.
WORDS WORDS WORDS
NATN: You talk a lot about "the plan." Does that have any meaning?
DM: No. It's kind of vaguely political. But it's pretty much meaningless.
NATN: What did you have in mind when you wrote it?
DM: Some sort of revolution. Some sort of changing of political structures. But its nonesense basically.
NATN: Do the words have usually have any personal meaning to you?
DM: Almost not at all.
NATN: How do you come up with them?
DM: Well, my girlfriend helps me to some degree.
NATN: She's not credited on the album is she?
DM: She is. I hope so! She's helped me write lyrics for the last two records. Sometimes on the last record -- even on "The Plan" -- I would record the song and make up words. And then I would give her a tape of it and mix the vocals kinda low, so she could just decipher words and make them up.
But on this new stuff, I've been working on the lyrics the last few days. They are the last thing to come. I have melodies and meter -- no words. So I've been trying to write some lyrics. The way I'm doing it now is just opening a book and pointing to words and hoping they make sense.
I think that every once in a while I think it works. There are lines here and there I really like. Overall, its meaningless and I really wish I didn't have to do it. But I don't want to make instrumental music.
NATN: Why not? I think sometimes your music is the best part.
DM: I do too. I prefer them myself. But I'm not interested in instrumental music myself. I want to make music that a lot of people can listen to. Especially now that we've already made records that I sing on. I want to make music people can listen to and like. I'm not just doing it for myself.
NATN: Who's the listener you have in mind when writing your songs?
DM: I don't really know. To me, what I imagine, are nice people (laughs). That's about all that matters to me. There's a lot of fuckers that listen to us. Lame people. But when I do interviews, most of the people I talk to are nice people. And that's all I care about. I don't even care if they're smart or have good musical tastes.
NATN: In one of your songs, you name an "Albertson's stir fry." Have you ever tasted one of those?
DM: Have you?
NATN: No.
DM: There's a real guy that invited us over to his apartment once for an Albertson's stir fry, though. It was a really sad and pathetic moment. He had mental problems and kind of out of the blue invited us over one night. We had to refuse.
NATN: I don't blame you.
DM: Where are you anyway?
NATN: Chicago.
DM: Do you have Albertson's there?
NATN: No but I've seen one before. And I thought the image of a guy eating an Albertson's stir fry alone was a good one -- a nice detail.
DM: I think as time goes on, I write worse and worse lyrics. When I was younger, I defintely had more interest in lyrics. You know, just more ideas. And now I've reached my lowest point, where I'm just randomly picking words out of random books.
NATN: Are you afraid to reveal something personal?
DM: I feel like I don't have anything to offer. I don't feel like … I don't know. I think some people are great writers and they should write. If you're not a great writer, just pull words randomly out of a book.
NATN: Have you thought about having somebody else write words for you?
DM: Yeah. Like I said, my girlfriend helps me. But it's kind of a business decision because I have this publishing deal. And if I were to have someone else write lyrics I would have to pay them lots and lots of money. I would rather write bad lyrics and keep my money.
BEN FRENCH | Ben founded NATN in the winter of 1998-1999 with fellow IU alums Troy Carpenter and Jonathan Cohen. During the day time, he's working for Nielsen Business Media, publisher of Billboard. Ben's favorite acts include Bruce Springsteen, The Clash, Sonic Youth, Elvis Costello, Talking Heads, Rolling Stones, and the Beach Boys.